Overland with Kids

We have had some useful email correspondance regarding vehicle choice and considerations from the drive to oz team (www.drive-to-oz.com) - Graham and Eirenne and their 3 children who are currently in Laos, travelling from UK to OZ using a Toyota Land Cruiser. The following represents 3 email exerts over the past few days between ourselves which, focuses on the differences, considerations and comparisons between using Land Rover Defender and the Toyota Land Cruiser - (plus the use of an off-road caravan) a good resource for anyone thinking about a serious overland trip and wondering which vehicle to use for such an expedition - particularly with children. The choice of vehicle is very dependant on the type of trip being made but the message is to ‘choose carefully!’ and consider the terrain, comfort, speed, distance, maintenance & repair-ability, people and the type of travel and accommodation planned. We are always open to further comments and advice, particularly with children, so please contact us at any time. The following exerts are provided without prejudice:

From www.drive-to-oz.com

“OK been following your website when we can and been talking about you guys a lot and thinking about whether we should mail you or not. Anyway you might never speak to us again but decided to give you our tuppenth worth. Taking a land rover really isn’t the best of ideas, especially with kids. OK they have a reputation, look the business and are very good off-road and fulfil the overlanding stereotype but that is where it ends. I’ve had 3 of them and they are uncomfortable, very slow, underpowered and massively unreliable and I still love them. OK they are easy to botch repairs on as the electronics are minimal but if you don’t know much about cars it will be a nightmare. Spares are so few and far between once u get out of the UK its unbelievable and you cant carry everything. Toyotas (and in fairness Nissan Patrols and Mitsubishis these days) are so reliable you wouldn’t believe it - bugger the romance they really are the business. They’re comfortable, have aircon and all that nice stuff, nice seats and all the stuff u want with kids plus you get speed with them. There has been so many times when we’ve been stuck behind a lorry and know that, if we were in a 110, we would be there for literally hours. The further east u go the more parts u get with them and everyone knows how to repair them. I spent a day with a bloke going through my one and its been all that we’ve needed. In fairness if u r going to get a land rover it’s the 300 tdi you want (which are still made brand new left hand drive if you are interested) but with a family I really really think you will regret it. You have ages before you go and u wont lose any money selling that one as previous keepers and service history counts for very little in the UK land rover world. I was never keen on the land cruiser but I will never go back - it has been superb through the most diabolical conditions and its been better off-road than any of my land rovers ever where even though ours is automatic (GX so less electrics). The engine size is way smaller on the 90 and 110 than it should be on those, especially with this kit u will be carrying. Believe u me I was dead certain about getting a 300 tdi for the trip and was minutes away from buying one - spoke to a couple of die hard land rover people including Daniel Moylan (link on my website but he was writing all the articles in Land rovers Owner International and stuff that u might have read) and they said go Toyota.

The caravan idea is also really really bad - you will really struggle with it and use it very infrequently. We’re carrying tents and stuff and the price difference between that and accommodation is frequently negligible and going remote is actually pretty rate. When u stay in accommodation parking will be a nightmare and twice the price (all hotels charge for parking) and tolls will also cost u a whack (and I can recall only Hungary being toll-less out of all the countries we’ve been to) not to mention bridges andferries. If u r leaving on 1st April (which we think is the perfect time to leave) there are so many great deals round Europe as its off-season for skiing andsummer holidays - we find Russia and the stans so much more expensive than Europe in this respect for accommodation. After those few countries though its really cheap as chips. With a decent roof box u will have loads of room (we had 6 in our car through china and it was no hassle) or maybe opt for one of those South African roof tent jobs. Some of the roads you will have will be an absolute nightmare and there will be some damage no doubt. It will so slow you down and you will be slow as it is with a 110 that you will get really frustrated - a 3-4 hour drive in a land cruiser will easily be a 10 hour job for u guys with a caravan in a 110.

Anyway just thought we’d say and don’t think u will lose any money if u sell what you have now. Really try and speak to people who have done this sort of trip and see what they say about a 110 with little mechanical knowledge and a land rover. One thing we learnt is everyone has advice to give and completely different perceptions of countries than we have so feel free to ignore us. We have loads to learn from you guys on the kids angle in fairness and I do think we could have done things better there but the timing was right which maybe made us rush things a bit. No regrets as we would never had done it if we had waited but reading about your Spain trip you have got the right approach with the kids. And if u r going to stick with the 110 there is a very good firm in Surrey (AJS tyres) that will sort out your 55mph problem as its quite common - normally a turbo tweak which will increase fuel consumption but well worth it. Might possibly be in “limp home” mode but I think that might be just the TD5. New air and fuel filter (which are a piece of piss to change) will be a good tester in the first instance.

In terms of spending money on Oz employment consultants I went out there last year and had a couple of meeting with those horrible employment agency people - we had started to make enquiries with a few firms in the ukbut I really wouldn’t spend any money. All the agencies out there can sort out your work visas so quickly - im in IT but they were putting me forward for positions that, if I got, they said they would sort out the visas after. OK so might have been rubbish but I knew they had done it for a few others. After a certain period of time they will get you longer andlonger term ones - really wouldn’t spend any money on that business till you are out there even if you are adamant and definite that u will stay (which I think you are not and are open-minded about). Anyway thought it best to put down our thoughts as u guys seem really nice people and this taking kids travelling across the world thing is quite uncommon. I know how I would feel if I had bought the car and the caravan like you but just think about it. Anyway whatever you do best of luck and will still be following u. In Laos currently and this place is great, cheap as chips but all of a sudden we’ve come across English people and its welcoming and weird!!!”.

Response from www.overlandwithkids.com

“We like people like you - honest and to the point. All your advice is welcome and very much appreciated and we are still digesting. So, although we provide a response now - we are sure to be eating our words later. We are amazed at your response and your thought and consideration for us. We are really grateful. We have thought long and hard about our choices and can go out and buy a LC tomorrow if we please but have not for various reasons. This may well change at some stage but so far, we remain really happy with our choices and the many laughs, pains, experiences and memories we are sure to have. We think it’s probably a LR or nothing for us - it’s definately all about romance than having our heads screwed on at times. We plan to camp it all the way through Europe - squeezing every ounce of our budget and spending as much time as possible in particular areas so hotels are not an option for us even though we know very well that such accommodation will be comparable budget -wise - in fact hotel life will probably be cheaper in many cases! We are under no illusions that we are probably choosing the more expensive option in terms of travelling. On the other hand, there are some fantastic campsites which put some of the best hotels to shame plus the networking opportuntities and friends the children and ourselves hope to build will help to add to this experince. This is despite the tolls, parking charges etc. In a hotel however, as an acquaintance of ours has already mentioned - we can’t wake up to the birds beside a lake each morning and really take in the landscape of the place in a hotel - though we don’t know. Many places we wish to visit will not have accommodation nearby in many cases. We are not doing this trip to stay in hotels and cities and we know you are not either but you get the drift. We plan to visit some remote spots so a tent (even a roof tent) will not suffice for durations of long periods comfortably (without going batty) for all concerned. Plus, we cannot detatch all the equipment we will be carrying if all in one vehicle and could not consider e.g. bringing bikes for all of us - due to weight-load - i.e. we plan to do alot of cycling and walking for the Europe leg. We are not taking the easiest option which is why we are waiting for our little boy to become a bit more mature and robust before travelling. Also, we are not planning to take the caravan idea past Europe but will use guest accommodation after this point (will ship caravan home or onward to Oz - dependant on how we get along with it - though we will still retain vehicle). Not sure if this was made very clear on our site as yet.

Everything you have said has been noted including visas for Australia however - please note that Andrew’s age is against him as oppossed to you guys who are much younger. You will have more oportunities as your ages are ‘for’ you currently whereas we are hitting a slightly more mature stage. Andrew will be 46! by the time we actually plan to hit Australia and rather than wanting to live there - we want the flexibility as a result to choose freely without worry - and to stay, recoup or whatever else if we wish. We don’t want our trip cut short or to take a risk unduly without planning because of our age - hence why we have chosen the route we have. Typical that you should say that you will get a visa without a problem as someone else has told us similar - even so we’ve still chosen this ’safe’ route.  If it had been a few years ago, we would have decided very differently about this option but for now it offers a great chance for our children also when they are older if we do decide to stay/work/live there. They could go onto to live and work permanently in OZ even if/when we decide to return to the UK . But we suppose that could be the case with your chosen route also but could be more hairy which we’re not prepared to mess with. What we mean to say is that - it’s certainly a case of ‘horses for courses’ - each family needs to do what they feel is right for them - your choice is the LC but you are also travelling at some speed through each country and not spending the amount of time that we plan to - for example - you will have travelled UK to Australia in the same time frame that we plan to do our Europe leg of the trip alone. You have chosen hotel accommodation whereas we need campsites to use as central location points for some of the more remote places we want to get out and visit - we have carved up each country into 4 and into specific areas of interest to us to try to squeeze the best out of the money being spent. A ground tent may also form part of this plan but we’ll see. We also want to stay outside of main cities on the main drag through Europe - this will help us keep the costs down etc. and also hopefully allow us to mingle with the locals and soak up each country better. LR is a bone rattler no less but we have high-back 2nd row reclining seats fitted to our vehicle which make an enormous difference for the children. They can lie down flat and sleep if they would like. They have excellent added advantage of height due to the added car seats also. Vehicle will be virtually empty of weight (everything will be in/on Jurgens) including fuel, water, fridge, cooking, water, food, books, clothes, equipment etc.(all except 4 x bikes we will be bringing). Therefore, we don’t need to take everything with us each day visiting sites etc.but can leave behind locked up.

We are naive concerning basic mechanics of our vehicle currently, but regardless of what vehicle we choose - caravan would still be an issue speed wise for us. We plan to detatch caravan and base it at every opportunity - going off for a meander instead with the LR. We appreciate your views on 300 tdi instead of what we aready have - but we have already got - the vehicle we have is a CSW 110 ‘300 tdi’. We have seen the brand new left hand drive ones also but are happy with our choice and it is relatively low mileage for its age and currently in excellent condition - we have been looking at these vehicles for years before finally having the opportunity to buy. The LR is slow though there are ways of powering them up to more acceptable standards. We do not doubt anything that you have said however - especially the bit about the comfort of the vehicle you are using. The 2k2c.net team also used the LC for their overland trip to Cape Town from Scotland with a roof tent - so we are under no illusions at all. There is something to be said there - reliability alone - the only defence we can offer are the scores of others who have travelled overland and used the LR as their vehicle of choice and we beg to differ about parts availability as we have a worldwide list we have managed to source which will travel everywhere with us, alongside our nearest hospital list! In all, we really appreciate all of your comments as nothing counts for the experience of actually doing it whereas we are still in the dream state of planning and preparation etc. But as you have said yourself - each to their own - and probably stupidly for us but there you go.

Maybe we could set a challenge for ourselves to see how we actually fare on the big trip using a LR as oppossed to those more modern comfortable beasts available today, such as yours. Meantime, we continue to avidly view your progress via your website - your latest entry is excellent- keep up the good work! and love to all of you. Enjoy Laos - you’ve broken the back of your journey and are more than half way it seems. How is your expenditure looking (on road costs so far since leaving) - if you don’t mind us asking? Budget is everything!”.
 

Response from www.drive-to-oz.com

“Finally got on line (ok I’m offline but hoping this gets sent tomorrow) - top reply that and yep to summarise you are right! With the camping caper when its raining and hard and all that its painful but what u do get is that the kids can get air in their hair and a bit of space and instant meeting people which u don’t get anywhere near as much with hotels and the like + the views andstuff. After a while it gets quite hard but understand your reasoning. And in terms of spaces and stuff I think bikes are a brilliant idea and something we would love if we had the space and maybe a kid less or not so young! Every dreadful road we drove through in Asia we kept on thinking about having a caravan with us and the madness of it but didn’t realise u weren’t taking it for that bit. For Europe and Oz it will be no problem - in fact met an Aussie overlander guy the other day and hes getting the same model of caravan as yours to do all of Australia. Re the Land Rover v Land Cruiser argument I have always loved the romance of Land Rovers and when we lived in South Africa as a kid we sourced one to drive back through Africa to the UK . Anyway it never happened (my folks thought better of it) but since then I always wanted to do something similar in a Land Rover. Im really happy with our car but completely agree with the whole sentiment of the land rover so fair enough - u know the potential problems and u accept them. Anyway I was saying that your car (a 300tdi), if I was going to take a landie, would be the one to take (the country station wagon bit is just the trim I’m sure - the engine is still the standard 300tdi) as your electrical probs will be minimal and they are top engines despite being underpowered (they still make them as the MOD insisted and didn’t like the td5 but guess u know that). Don’t know if u have been in touch with nessies adventures but they have just got back from 2 years in a landie and did have some problems with parts but maybe not researched as much as u. I do know that the various Land Rover clubs which exist in almost every country are a brilliant source of support both with the vehicle and with everything else and u do not get this with Toyotas (the UK Toyota one is almost stagnant and there is only one!!!) . Glad I sent u the email as u have taken it in the spirit it was intended and uve proved me wrong - I thought there was a load of things u hadn’t thought about u had so apologies and think u r going about it the right way. In terms of costs and stuff we have made a note of all the petrol costs and mileage andstuff but not tolls. We do go through money like water but possibly my wife has a different outlook to thinks like u. We had budgeted for £75 per day and are way way over that and I cant really blame fuel costs. I reckon a new fuel filter (particularly for asia not Europe) puts on 5mpg for the first 4 tanks and gradually decreases so u can work it the benefit of taking a good few of those (we take a jam jar to check whether there is water in the diesel where the petrol station is crap). A big thing for us is having 5 as a load of places wont let us share a room when we are in accommodation but if u r camping u will save a fair whack. We have a couple of cookers (one gas and one that burns anything) and they do the dehydrated food (we carry 40l of water and a very good filter) and that does us when we need. Basically we have one big meal and bread and fruit and veg to eat on after breakfast. Im not sure we can compare costs as we have been pretty much accommodation all the way and we do live very well I must concede - food is as cheap as u want it to be if use markets and supermarkets, accommodation u know and diesel does vary - only in Bosnia did it go under £1 a litre but the stans, china and laos varies from 40p - 66p a litre. In terms of general tips and off the top of my head and no particular order I would throw the following in -

Sponsorship - Look into this - I did get loads in the end but my approach was pretty rubbish initially but once I got it right it was quite easy. Depends how u want to go but driving with kids is so so unique despite the websites out there - people are aghast at what we do every single day. If u do want to go down this avenue let us know.
Medicine - We both did courses obviously and carry a load of medicine, antibiotics, epipens and whatever that I imagine and hope we will never use. What we have used is those cold packs u shake and break - superb and really done us well but more handy for young kids.
MP3 connector to your radio - u lose FM radio out of Europe and a load of different music the kids like is good and great for morale.
Defence - Pepper Spray or CS gas - freely available in Europe - handy to have hidden and accessible in your car
Money - cash and card - hide it in different places as well as maybe a safe.
BloodcareFoundation - don’t know their worth but u guys can get sponsorship - will get clean blood to u anywhere round the world allegedly!!!
EPIRB - those personal locator beacons - reasonably safe guard although not sure how necessary - we got a sponsored discounted one but u can get ones that send a signal every 5 minutes so people can follow where u r
Fuel - perhaps overstated this but u should aim to have a range of about 600 miles and u will, from our experience be alright - Africa might be a bit different. Obviously 20litres is 20 kgs so jerry cans on the roof rack not ideal but a couple will be fine. Think u will prob need a long range fuel tank as your mpg will be rubbish (I would guess 15)
Compressor - where people pump up their tyres outside of Europe is baffling!!! 2 spares (as often both will go at the same time if u hit some metal thing in a puddle) and a puncture kit (and experience of doing one)
Spares - we carry quite a lot but I think Ive been a bit over the top as most are easy to get hold of
Winch - not sure if u have one but I have used ours a lot (but only once for us in fairness) and u need the strops and pulley and stuff to go with it. Really would recommend this - it increases your vehicle capability by so much.
Hi-lift jack - have one - wouldn’t bother - use a bottle jack and winching from one is theoretically possible but practically a nightmare.
Invertor - good to have

Cant think of much more but equipment wise u will have a load of stuff that u will need to take and never use. Anyway impressed and good luck”.

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Vehicle Preparation